Coetzee II: the discussion.

Objective: To explore the idea of raising, killing, and eating animals. Topics include: rights, lives, consumption, nature vs. humanity, and vegetarian vs. omnivore.
Goals: To figure out what each of us believes; to understand the opposite point of view; to figure out how to make a difference regarding animal rights.
1. Death by nature vs. death by human: Which is more compassionate? Why do animals kill less than humans? Would animals do what humans do if they could?
a. Austyn: “In previous class discussions people have brought up the point that, in the wild, a predator kills its prey gruesomely- we’re just doing the same thing; it’s natural. I don’t believe, under any circumstances, can one compare these two situations. When a lion takes down a gazelle, it snaps the neck. It doesn’t chew off the horns and tail; it doesn’t make a point of letting it bleed slowly so it’ll taste better.”
b. Tyler: “A lion does not kill its dinner while considering its feelings, nor does it go about the process making sure that its death is as painless as possible. No—it murders the animal in a way that is the most convenient, quickest, and easiest for itself.”
2. Animals as cognitive beings: Are animals as “intelligent” as humans? Can animals comprehend their situation? Does it matter?
a. Austyn: “Whether or not we feel various species’ roles in these commensalistic relationships are substandard, we should still respect them.”
b. Saumya: “Yes, who is to say that animals have less power than humans?”
c. Mary: “How can we so easily objectify hundreds of species without truly understanding their definition of “life”? And for the animals’ world views we think we comprehend, the question to reflect on is “are [we] sure about that?””
d. Samantha: “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVtQPabMvZQ Did you notice how the elephant was completely oblivious of the lions before they pounced on him? He was not preoccupied with protecting himself; he was not in fear for his life. This is because the elephant, like all non-human animals, cannot “comprehend extinction.” (2)”
e. Jenny: ““Every living creature fights for its own, individual life” (Coetzee 99), and I believe that as creatures also fighting for our lives, we should at least try to understand the horrors of such an act.”
f. Jennifer: ““Living... with baboons, I discovered what Elizabeth Costello means when she says that to be an animal is to 'be full of being,' 'full of joy.' Like the rest of us, baboons get grouchy, go hungry, feel fear and pain and loss. But during my times with them, the default state seemed to be a lighthearted appreciation of being a baboon body in baboon-land” [3].”
3. Meat consumption: Is it right to eat meat? Is it morally superior to abstain from meat? Is the main issue with meat PRODUCTION or CONSUMPTION?
a. All people agree that the food industry treats its animals cruelly.
b. Jennifer: ““Treat your neighbors as you would like to be treated.” We seem to forget that animals are also our neighbors, to be treated with kindness – “kindness in its full sense, as an acceptance that we are all of one kind, one nature””
c. Tyler: “Meat still tastes good and I am going to continue to eat it. It’s just that now I tend to think about what I consume. Also, I tend to think about why and how we came to become so dominant over our fellow earthlings.”
d. Austyn: “This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t kill them for food- it simply means that we should be compassionate about it.”
e. Samantha: “Just because a human, an omnivore at the top of the food chain, chooses to consume meat does not make him or her inhumane or an unjust killer, it makes them natural.”
4. The act of killing: Would everyone be vegetarian if they had to kill their own meat? Why do you think the factory workers are so cruel? Do the consumers or the producers drive the meat industry?
a. Tyler (previously): “IN MY OPINION, HUNTING ONLY PROVES THAT ONE HAS A LONGING TO FEEL BADASS OR DOMINANT, WHICH DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE DEATH OF AN ANIMAL.”
b. Mary: If I had known that my McDonald’s hamburger came from a cow that was forced against its will to produce milk all day, stuck in a cage exhausted "from seeing only bars" with no freedom, I would have stopped eating them a long time ago.”
c. Jennifer: “I've chosen to abstain from eating meat so far, but I'm not sure yet what my intentions are in doing so. I know that a protest by one 125 lb girl with an already meager appetite for meat isn't going to change the industry.”
5. Making a difference: Does being a vegetarian help, or is it a personal choice (more specifically, does vegetarianism represent compassion or disgust)? What steps can we take? Do you think change is possible (realistically, not theoretically; we will assume that it is technically “possible”)?
a. Jennifer: “My recent vegetarianism is my own refusal to partake in the unjust treatment of animals, not an attempt to change how this world works.”
b. Saumya: “Every time I put my plate up in the cafeteria I see dozens of half filled plates with chicken, beef, pork, and fish on them and now I am disgusted. Not at the sight of left over food but at the thought of the poor animals who were abused and killed and not even to nourish anyone, to rot and be thrown away.” “The creators of the “green” market are geniuses and hopefully I can acquire a fraction of their talent and market a campaign for clean meat.”
c. Mary: “I believe that the actions you do are just as important as the actions you don’t. Feeling sorry for animals and offering them up pity is fruitless if you don’t use those emotions as a stimulant for change.”
d. Ben: “I encourage people to explore the endless possibilities of an elementary game like the associations of animal attributes to humans, and find out what one can learn about themselves, or their own realization about the understandings of species different from our own.”
e. Jenny: “I agree with this statement: if those who wish to have such commodities claim to care for animals at all, it is partly their responsibility to find another way of attaining their goals."